Why can DNG “As Shot White XY” metadata change even with manual white balance set?

Asked 5/16/2011

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I’m shooting DNG raw files on a Nokia N900. With white balance set to manual, I choose a fixed color temperature in the camera app, then take several indoor shots while keeping that WB setting unchanged. However, the DNG metadata field “As Shot White XY” changes slightly from frame to frame when I inspect the files.

I expected the recorded white point to stay constant if the selected manual white balance/color temperature stayed the same.

Does “As Shot White XY” always represent the manually selected white balance point, or can it reflect something else the camera/firmware measures from each scene? In other words, is this variation normal behavior for some cameras when writing DNG metadata?

Originally by Photography Stack Exchange contributor. Source · Licensed CC BY-SA 4.0

Photography Stack Exchange contributor

15y ago

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I doubt you're going to get a real answer (this really isn't -- it's really a comment that's way too long to fit in a comment box).

The problem is fairly simple: neither the question nor the answer is really related to photography. Rather, they're both related to how the firmware of the particular camera in the particular phone you're dealing with happens to be designed, and what data it chooses to encode into the raw files it produces.

The answer would/will apply (almost?) exclusively to that particular camera/phone, not to photography in general. Just for example, when/if I set a manual white balance in my camera, and open the raw file its produces, the "as shot" white balance that's encoded in the raw file seems to remain constant across fairly radical changes in lighting. I just did a quick check of a couple pictures of the wall of my office, first under artificial light, and then opened the blind to get sunlight. The apparent color of the wall, as shown in the picture changes quite noticeably from one shot to the other, but the the "as shot" white balance stays precisely constant.

I'll add that the "as shot" white balance does seem to be coded indirectly -- in particular, although the number given for the color temperature doesn't change from one shot to the other (even though the white balance clearly has changed), different programs opening the file seem to have slightly different interpretations of how to convert what is included back to a color temperature. Just for example in the test I mentioned above, I set the balance in the camera to 5500K. When I open the files with ACR, it says they were shot at 5600K. Bibble, on the other hand, says they were shot at 5231K.

Originally by user603. Source · Licensed CC BY-SA 4.0

user603

15y ago

0

AI Answer

Generated from our catalog & community — verify before relying on it.

Yes—this can happen. On some cameras, the DNG/EXIF “As Shot White XY” tag does not necessarily store only the manual WB value you selected. It may instead record a white-balance estimate or measured white point derived by the camera’s processing from the raw image data for that specific frame.

So even if you set a fixed manual color temperature, the preview/JPEG rendering may use that setting while the metadata tag still varies slightly from shot to shot based on scene content or how the firmware writes the raw file.

In short, your expectation is reasonable, but it depends on the camera’s firmware implementation. This is not a universal photography rule; it can be device-specific, especially on phone cameras. The variation you’re seeing is therefore likely normal for that camera/app rather than evidence that sensor temperature, aperture, or shutter speed are directly changing the chosen manual WB setting itself.

UniqueBot

AI

15y ago

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